By which I mean: Android started off with a complete base OS under a FOSS license. Over time Google has replaced these FOSS apps with proprietary Google apps and deprecated the FOSS versions, meaning that a pure AOSP install now has no apps. Calling this on Firefox where new, "better", "premium" features will slowly start replacing features that have existed for no reason other than to push people to premium.

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hey guys? guys? you think maybe creating this single program that has to do literally everything from implementing a filesystem to 3 different virtual machines to parsers for god knows how many file formats may have been an inherently bad idea that would inevitably concentrate power within the like 3 organizations on the planet that can actually afford to maintain this kind of clusterfuck?

But really 1 organization, let's be honest. Apple doesn't actually give a shit about developing WebKit really and Mozilla is unable to actually threaten the Blink hegemony because they'd lose the Google money.

By the way: reminder that shit like Chrome is so massive that we don't even know all the licenses involved. Fully-FLOSS distributions don't include Chromium because *no single person actually knows all the libraries and programs bundled in with the chromium repository, which is like 50 gigs*

This is actually changing because a few months ago someone offered to donate their time and perform a comprehensive audit to learn what all of Chromium's real dependencies are, but this program has been around for 10 years.

There's no reasonable way out of this either. If we go with some donation model and assume that 1 in 1000 users donate (this seems like a stretch to me) those users would need to donate like 1.5k/yr to keep mozilla funded at the level it's at now when the engine it's competing against has the backing of both Google and MS.

@ari I fully endorse the notion that the "operating system" is an intrinsically bad idea, yes. there's not a single good one

@kara_dreamer I've linked you to exokernels before, right?

@kara_dreamer The conceit is "the 'operating system' exists purely to make sure you don't break the hardware. everything else is up to the application"

@charlag Revenue was from here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_ I had to search for a long time for usage numbers because mozilla doesn't publish anything official but I eventually found a reddit post somewhere that put it at ~360m which strikes me as a pretty generous estimate. According to this site: internetworldstats.com/stats.h it should be more like 220m since firefox has ~5% market share. Divided by a thousand that gives us 360k possible donors.

@charlag Half a billion in revenue over 360k possible donors = $1388 per donor per year to sustain mozilla's current income.

@charlag The numbers are back of the envelope as hell but that's the best I can do 🀷

@ari what, doesn't publish anything, they publish a lot, I did the report even.
There are two PDFs in the end:

mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/a

@ari I believe if they were not Silicon Valley based with expensive CEOs, weird purchases (Pocket) and random VR experiments, they wouldn't spend as much. You still need shitton of money to compete with Google ofc and people just won't donate that. They won't pay that either IMO.
I work at company with arguably the most generous free and paid plans on the market and we also compete with Google and I say it's possible but for them it's different ofc.

@charlag "You still need shitton of money to compete with Google ofc and people just won't donate that. They won't pay that either IMO." is essentially my thesis. The web has become so bloated and awful that it's impossible to even hope for any community driven presence.

Mozilla's about as good as we can get but at the end of the day they're still pretty much entirely beholden to Google. What are they going to do, get Oath to fund them?

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@ari and besides WASM and workers things are awful anyway! IndexedDB is a *horror*. CSS is complex and unpredictable as hell. JS is just right to write bloated stuff. Crypto is async and unreliable.
Wanna make zoomable content? You're out of lack, pal, in our platform of future it's not possible.
And there's a long list of half-baked non-standard Chrome stuff.

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