I'm so not here for dunking about how men as a whole are terrible. Like, I've been there, I get where it comes from, I get that there are all sorts of mental exceptions about The Few Good Ones and such
And I've also heard repeatedly from trans men and other transmasculine people how intensely damaging that is for them and I refuse to just sideline so much of our communities like that
(Yes the goalposts can then be moved to "dunking on cis men" and this is a personal prejudice I still struggle with being better than at times so I get it. But even then we are erasing a lot of intersectional considerations by acting as if all cis men--regardless of race, disability, security, etc--capture the same segment of Toxic Masculinity that we are angry about.)
(I'm trying to focus on behaviours when I speak more. And its okay to notice patterns, such as when I am wary when my instagram account gets followed by an apparent cis guy in the military with a locked profile. But noticing patterns and discussing them isn't the same as the "men are terrible" be-all and end-all posts I see getting tossed around)
@AzureHusky ,..yeah. Like.
I’ve notucted a lotta ‘men are terrible’ stuff shits on disabled men indirectly.
‘Men who can’t look after themselves are shit’
Which. U can see the problem with tbh.
Even later saying ‘well i didn’t mean disabled men, just non disabled lazy men’
Doesn’t change the fact someone went for a disablity associated thing.
@Doggo yes!! It's almost like treating men as a single entity is most damaging to the most marginalized men
@AzureHusky please tell me to shut up if I'm butting in too much, but;
I think that in order to actually make progress, people need vent space, legitimization (unfortunately when people are marginalized especially, we learn that solidarity involves in-groups and "othering"), and actually *working* around members of the other group.
Social media winds up being all three, there's no vent space; no clear place to go okay, this was healthy, but so is being charitable to these other people.
@Leucrotta I absolutely agree vent space is important and sometimes this sort of thing can be necessary in that kind of space. And also we need to acknowledge that when we make this sort of vent publicly (especially in a format that can be passed around) then it isn't a safe vent space and may be having collateral damage that we can't control.
@Leucrotta I have small groups I vent in, private chats and a small triad of all trans people. And I may do a "shake my fist and tell 'cis people'" there at times even when i know it's unfair. But if I toot Cis People Are All Garbage and people boost it around that isn't just a vent anymore. It's becoming shared where people who can be harmed by it can see it.
@Leucrotta I think it's *easy* to legitimize our experiences by getting angry at broad swaths. And it can even be needed at times. But it's super easy to get sucked into treating that as a harmless thing, which it isn't.
@AzureHusky Definitely with you there. (Talking more about that gets absurdly weird ethnic/personal, poke at me more if you really want, but the "with you 100%" is the important part.)
@Leucrotta I think it's fair to see this as nuanced in a way my original toots didn't cover (which were mostly specific to how we conduct ourselves on social media). Thanks for engaging and bringing up some important perspective.
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